Hijabi-Check

Posted by on 12/27/09 • Categorized as Internet Finds,Qur'an & Sunnah,Stories & Articles

A beneficial checklist, and reminders for every woman in hijab.

Hijabi-Check

Author Unkown

hijabchecklist

Hijaab is not a piece of cloth on your head. Just because some of the sisters have their head covered, they think that the requirement of Hijaab is fulfilled. They don’t realize that wearing a Hijaab requires much more than just covering your head. Actually, if you think about it, Hijaab is the way you talk…the way you walk…the very way you carry yourself.

In fact, Hijaab is an attitude in itself. It’s a whole way of life. Allah says:

“And say to the believing women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty (zeenah) except what is apparent of it, and to extend their head coverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you believers, in order that you are successful.” (Surat-un-Nur: 31).

Here are some of the more common issues in light of this verse about the Hijaab.

Well, my head is covered. What more do you want?

If you look carefully at the ayah, it clearly states that the head covers (khumur) should be drawn over the neck slits (juyoob). Khumur is the plural of the Arabic word “khimar” which means a head cover. Juyoob is the plural of the Arabic word “jaiyb,” which refers to the neck slit (of the dress).

Yet, some sisters just cover their head with something, and think they are fulfilling the rights of Hijaab, although part of their hair or body is showing, or their whole neck and chest area are exposed. Actually, that was the way of the women of Jahilliyah.

Al-Qurtubi said: “Women in those days used to cover their heads with the khimar, throwing its ends upon their backs. This left the neck and the upper part of the chest bare, along with the ears. Then Allah commanded them to cover those parts with the khimar.”

So secure the scarf well around your face, covering your neck/chest area, and keep those half sleeves and capri pants for your Mahrams.

Sorry.…tight jeans and short shirt just don’t cut it

You can’t wear tight jeans and a short shirt with a piece of cloth on your head and think this is Hijaab. Nor can you wear anything else that is tight, describing the shape of the body in any way, even if it is long.

The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: “In later (generations) of my ummah there will be women who will be dressed but naked. On top of their heads (what looks) like camel humps. They will not enter into paradise or (even) get a smell of it.” (Muslim)

If it is see-through, its NOT Hijaab

You CANNOT use chiffon or other see through material to cover your hair and body. Everything should be covered and the color of the skin [and hair] underneath should not be visible.

The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) once received a thick garment as a gift. He gave it to Osamah ibn Zayd, who in turn gave it to his wife. When asked by the Prophet why he did not wear it, Osamah indicated that he gave it to his wife. The Prophet then said to Osamah “Ask her to use a ‘gholalah’ under it (the garment) for I fear that it (the garment) may describe the size of her bones.” (Ahmad, Abi-Dawood)

(The word gholalah in Arabic means a thick fabric worn under the dress to prevent it from describing the shape of the body).

The Hijaab shouldn’t attract attention

The dress should not be such that it attracts men’s attention to the woman’s beauty. Allaah clearly states “not to display their beauty (zeenah).” Yet, Subhaan Allaah, some Hijaabi sisters are dressed in such a way that they attract more attention to themselves than they would if they didn’t wear Hijaab!!

How could such zeenah be concealed if the dress is designed in a way that it attracts men’s eyes to the woman? It beats the purpose of Hijaab.

Allaah tells us: “And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like those of the times of ignorance…” [al-Ahzaab:32]

What about make-up and perfume???

Wearing make up is also part of the zeenah that Allaah orders us NOT to display. So if your head and body are appropriately covered yet you are wearing bright red lipstick or dark eyeliner such that people confuse between you and a raccoon… uh sorry, that’s not Hijaab.

And keep those nice fragrances for the home, between you and your husband. That’s part of Hijaab too, even if you are going to the Masjid.

The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: “Any woman who puts on perfume and passes by people so that they can smell her fragrance, is an adulteress.” (al-Nasaa’i, Tirmidhi: hasan by Albaani)

Tinkling Jewelry and Jingling Bracelets – ‘Loud’ and tinkling anything, be it jewelry, bracelets, clip-clopping shoes, little bells on clothes, you name it – if it jingles or makes noise, it is against the principles of Hijaab, because it attracts attention to the one wearing it.

That is what is meant when Allaah orders us in the above verse… “not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments.”

No laughing, joking, or hanging out with non-Mahrams

Some sisters assume that since they are properly covered, its okay for them to sit around and talk, laugh, joke, etc. with the men, but that’s not right, even if he is ‘the Shaikh’.

Allaah says: “… then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner.” [al-Ahzaab:32]

So talk to them when there is a specific need, and in a manner that is not necessarily rude, yet it is polite but firm.

Staring at the brothers or ‘checking them out’ is NOT Hijaab

Allaah orders us to “lower your gaze” in the above verse. Why? Because a single ‘look’ can say more than a thousand words. So, even if you are properly covered, keep those eyes down, conduct yourself with ‘Hayaa,’ and avoid ‘fitnah.’

‘Chatting’ on the internet/phone is not part of Hijaab, either

There is no such thing as “we’re just friends.” Talking to non-Mahrams is wrong even if it is through the internet or telephone. There are too many stories of illegal relationships, fornication, broken homes, extra-marital affairs and runaway brides to even mention. That is why in Islam anything that leads to haraam is also haraam.

Allaah says: “Do not (even) come close to fornication, for it is an indecency, and its way is evil.” (Surah Israa:32)

Be careful, even in the way you walk

Remember, you are not a runway model displaying the latest fashion. Walk with modesty and hayaa and you will be respected.

The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: “There are two types of the people of Hell that I have not seen yet… women who are clothed yet naked, walking with an enticing gait…” (Muslim).

Don’t shake hands with non-Mahrams.

Its part of Hijaab. It is not permissible to shake hands with a non-Mahram, because the Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: “For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than to touch a woman who is not permissible for him.” (at-Tabaraani saheeh by al-Albaani).

And no, it is not rude to refuse to shake hands with non-Muslims. Simply politely explain that its part of your religion and they are very understanding.

Stay away from the men’s areas

I see many sisters entering the Masjid from the men’s entrance, or standing idle in the hallways or where there is a chance of unnecessary mixing with the brothers.

What for? Don’t we have a separate entrance for ourselves? Why do you think Allaah ordained the Hijaab in the first place? To avoid fitnah, by reducing temptation and separating the genders.

The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said to the women on his way out of the mosque when he saw men and women mixing together on their way home: “Give way (i.e., walk to the sides) as it is not appropriate for you to walk in the middle the road.” Thereafter, women would walk so close to the wall that their dresses would get caught on it.” (Abu Dawood)

Hijaab is also to conceal your sister

Although some sisters wear the Hijaab themselves, they forget that they cannot talk about another sister and her beauty in front of their own husbands, brothers, etc. Remember, part of your Hijaab is to cover your sister’s ‘awrah’ as well.

The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: “No woman should mix with a woman and describe her to her husband so that it is as if he can see her.” (Muslim)

May Allah guide us and bless us with the TRUE understanding of His Deen. Ameen.

______________

Please note: As with most of our “Internet Finds,” we are not in touch with the writers, and copyrights belong to their respective sources.

Tagged as: hijab, ihsaan

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  • Amna

    @NettieH

    The only people who believe that that’s what Jihad is are suicide bombers who kill countless innocent Muslims. And of course as we all know committing suicide is a one way trip to hell.

    -Amna

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    NettieH, I’m glad you came back to continue the conversation. Regarding the points you make:

    1) I completely agree with you that the Prophet’s wives were our examples, as Muslim women, and we should seek to emulate them. Find me a story about them, and I will be eager to follow.

    However, the early Muslims went to great lengths to distinguish between true and false reports. So when it comes to accepting Islamic knowledge, we only take from authentic sources.

    I confess that I don’t know the source of this story quoted by Lynn Reese, so I can’t say whether or not it’s true. Even then, the story doesn’t refer to the Prophet’s wife. The Prophet’s wife was “Aisha bint Abi Bakr,” whereas this is “Aisha bint Talha.” The quote is referring to Aisha bint Talha as the wife of the “son of a prominent companion,” and NOT as the wife of the Prophet. Secondly, if this quote could be taken as evidence of anything, it would only be evidence that Muslim women do not have to cover her faces (her husband specifically asked her to veil her face). So this story (if it is authentic) is not evidence against hijab.

    As for authentic evidence indicating the obligation of hijab for Muslim women, they are numerous, and it would difficult to gather them all here. But I will quote two of them for you.

    First, a verse from the Qur’an:

    “O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.” [33:59]

    Second, a narration from our history that complements this verse:

    Umm Salama [the wife of the Prophet] said: “When the verse {That they should cast their outer garments over their persons} [33:59] was revealed, the women of the Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads.” [Sahih Abi Dawud]

    Like I said, the evidences are numerous, and there is no doubt that hijab is a part of Islam, and that the Prophet’s wives were the first people addressed in the verse above regarding implementing it. (The Prophet’s wives were also obligated to cover their faces.)

    2) Actually, the Bible does command women to cover their heads. You will find:

    Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.” [1 Corinthians, 11:4-10]

    You will also find that nuns cover their head, and that any iconic image of the Virgin Mary shows her with her head covered. So I think the question you should ask (I assume you’re Christian?) is how come Christian women don’t cover their heads?

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    NettieH, I’m glad you came back to continue the conversation. Regarding the points you make:

    1) I completely agree with you that the Prophet’s wives were our examples, as Muslim women, and we should seek to emulate them. Find me a story about them, and I will be eager to follow.

    However, the early Muslims went to great lengths to distinguish between true and false reports. So when it comes to accepting Islamic knowledge, we only take from authentic sources.

    I confess that I don’t know the source of this story quoted by Lynn Reese, so I can’t say whether or not it’s true. Even then, the story doesn’t refer to the Prophet’s wife. The Prophet’s wife was “Aisha bint Abi Bakr,” whereas this is “Aisha bint Talha.” The quote is referring to Aisha bint Talha as the wife of the “son of a prominent companion,” and NOT as the wife of the Prophet. Secondly, if this quote could be taken as evidence of anything, it would only be evidence that Muslim women do not have to cover her faces (her husband specifically asked her to veil her face). So this story (if it is authentic) is not evidence against hijab.

    As for authentic evidence indicating the obligation of hijab for Muslim women, they are numerous, and it would difficult to gather them all here. But I will quote two of them for you.

    First, a verse from the Qur’an:

    “O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.” [33:59]

    Second, a narration from our history that complements this verse:

    Umm Salama [the wife of the Prophet] said: “When the verse {That they should cast their outer garments over their persons} [33:59] was revealed, the women of the Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads.” [Sahih Abi Dawud]

    Like I said, the evidences are numerous, and there is no doubt that hijab is a part of Islam, and that the Prophet’s wives were the first people addressed in the verse above regarding implementing it. (The Prophet’s wives were also obligated to cover their faces.)

    2) Actually, the Bible does command women to cover their heads. You will find:

    Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.” [1 Corinthians, 11:4-10]

    You will also find that nuns cover their head, and that any iconic image of the Virgin Mary shows her with her head covered. So I think the question you should ask (I assume you’re Christian?) is how come Christian women don’t cover their heads?

  • NettieH

    Bint AbdelHamid- Thank you for your intelligent responses. Veiling is a very emotional subject and I have enlisted some conversations with women who have said some pretty ugly things in return. That unfortunately closes the door to any real discussion. I can see covering very much viewed as the behavior of a “good Muslim” to over simply it- no offense! Women who feel they haven’t fully submitted to God without it. (burrka, veil, scarf or no covering your submission to God is subjective isn’t it?)

    American Christians today do not see veiling and unveiling as social issues, (As Paul spoke of to the Corinthians- as an example of the times- pagan women shaved their heads) but we still have the deeper principle of love and respect for Christ and for one another. “Love your neighbor as yourself” Leviticus 19:18 (NOT so easy!) :) God is far more concerned with an attitude of submission than an outward display of submission via a head covering. Christian women do not cover because it is no longer culturally relevant (like slave ownership-in the US).

    I am a Christian- follower of Christ! I am aware that some Christian’s cover (mainly Catholics cover). A covered nun use to scold us as children with her angry tone. (Covered yes- submission to God?)

    We as Christians believe in grace- God’s gift of salvation. No one can earn it by good behavior:

    “FOR by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” Ephesians 2:8.
    “Do not enter into judgment with Your servant, for in Your sight no one living is righteous.” Psalm 143:2

    Below seems to be a reputable source and one of a woman, which I tend to look for which gives more historical insight:
    “During Islam’s rise in the Middle Ages, the use of the veil and gender segregation was commonplace in the Christian Middle East and Mediterranean regions (Islam- not the 1st to cover), but their influence on Islam was relatively minor in the lifetime of Muhammad. In fact, his wives were not required to wear a veil or take up seclusion until the end of his life, and other than his wives, women in the general population still mingled freely with men.”
    According to Moroccan sociologist and researcher Fatima Mernissi, the institution of the hijab went against the principles that Muhammad had originally initiated.
    Read more at Suite101: The Practice of Veiling: A Look at the History of the Hijab in Islam http://islamic-practices.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_practice_of_veiling#ixzz0bTwRrSZL

  • NettieH

    Bint AbdelHamid- Thank you for your intelligent responses. Veiling is a very emotional subject and I have enlisted some conversations with women who have said some pretty ugly things in return. That unfortunately closes the door to any real discussion. I can see covering very much viewed as the behavior of a “good Muslim” to over simply it- no offense! Women who feel they haven’t fully submitted to God without it. (burrka, veil, scarf or no covering your submission to God is subjective isn’t it?)

    American Christians today do not see veiling and unveiling as social issues, (As Paul spoke of to the Corinthians- as an example of the times- pagan women shaved their heads) but we still have the deeper principle of love and respect for Christ and for one another. “Love your neighbor as yourself” Leviticus 19:18 (NOT so easy!) :) God is far more concerned with an attitude of submission than an outward display of submission via a head covering. Christian women do not cover because it is no longer culturally relevant (like slave ownership-in the US).

    I am a Christian- follower of Christ! I am aware that some Christian’s cover (mainly Catholics cover). A covered nun use to scold us as children with her angry tone. (Covered yes- submission to God?)

    We as Christians believe in grace- God’s gift of salvation. No one can earn it by good behavior:

    “FOR by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” Ephesians 2:8.
    “Do not enter into judgment with Your servant, for in Your sight no one living is righteous.” Psalm 143:2

    Below seems to be a reputable source and one of a woman, which I tend to look for which gives more historical insight:
    “During Islam’s rise in the Middle Ages, the use of the veil and gender segregation was commonplace in the Christian Middle East and Mediterranean regions (Islam- not the 1st to cover), but their influence on Islam was relatively minor in the lifetime of Muhammad. In fact, his wives were not required to wear a veil or take up seclusion until the end of his life, and other than his wives, women in the general population still mingled freely with men.”
    According to Moroccan sociologist and researcher Fatima Mernissi, the institution of the hijab went against the principles that Muhammad had originally initiated.
    Read more at Suite101: The Practice of Veiling: A Look at the History of the Hijab in Islam http://islamic-practices.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_practice_of_veiling#ixzz0bTwRrSZL

  • bintRey

    NettieH, you wrote: “God is far more concerned with an attitude of submission than an outward display of submission via a head covering.

    If that is what you believe that God wants or is concerned about — perhaps from interpreting verses of the Bible, then I will not argue. Suffice it to say, that in Islam, it is only Allah who tells mankind what He wants and the Quran being His words, together with the authentic narrations from the Prophet Muhammad, are our sources — and those sources say that Allah gives us guidance in every single aspect of our lives — from running our finances to our dress codes, from our feelings and attitudes to what is shown by our limbs through our actions. “And give glad tidings to those who believe and do righteous good deeds, that for them will be gardens under which rivers flow…” (Qur’an 2:25)

    That is well in contradiction to your belief: “We as Christians believe in grace- God’s gift of salvation. No one can earn it by good behavior:”.

    You also wrote: “Christian women do not cover because it is no longer culturally relevant (like slave ownership-in the US).”

    That’s another difference. Islam is the way of life that Allah prescribed and will accept “…This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen Islam as your religion…” (Qura’an 5:3). Therefore, Muslims have no right to change what Allah has established. It has been prescribed by the Creator who knows His creation best – from the beginning to the end of time. Islam’s teachings were and will always be relevant and even that, it is only Him who can tell what is relevant and what is not. Good and bad therefore, can only be defined by Him.

    It seems that your intention in posting here is what you said earlier : “I just want you to know where hijab originated.”

    Thank you, for trying to inform us Muslims. However, please understand and listen to what we are telling you — the hijab, despite your links and quotes, originated from Allah’s words in the Qur’an and from the authentic narrations of the Prophet. Those will guide us until Judgement Day. Any refutation of these two sources will be in vain.

    NettieH, you are telling us that our covering is in vain because history books and historians tell you that it’s not really a command from God. On the other hand, we Muslims tell you that IT IS a command from God and it is part of our worship and submission to Him because it is what He says in the Quran and the authentic narrations of the Prophet. As such, we Muslim women are happy to cover accordingly and we do not feel oppressed by it, on the contrary, we feel liberated. So why then do you insist on “liberating” us when we already are!

  • bintRey

    NettieH, you wrote: “God is far more concerned with an attitude of submission than an outward display of submission via a head covering.

    If that is what you believe that God wants or is concerned about — perhaps from interpreting verses of the Bible, then I will not argue. Suffice it to say, that in Islam, it is only Allah who tells mankind what He wants and the Quran being His words, together with the authentic narrations from the Prophet Muhammad, are our sources — and those sources say that Allah gives us guidance in every single aspect of our lives — from running our finances to our dress codes, from our feelings and attitudes to what is shown by our limbs through our actions. “And give glad tidings to those who believe and do righteous good deeds, that for them will be gardens under which rivers flow…” (Qur’an 2:25)

    That is well in contradiction to your belief: “We as Christians believe in grace- God’s gift of salvation. No one can earn it by good behavior:”.

    You also wrote: “Christian women do not cover because it is no longer culturally relevant (like slave ownership-in the US).”

    That’s another difference. Islam is the way of life that Allah prescribed and will accept “…This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen Islam as your religion…” (Qura’an 5:3). Therefore, Muslims have no right to change what Allah has established. It has been prescribed by the Creator who knows His creation best – from the beginning to the end of time. Islam’s teachings were and will always be relevant and even that, it is only Him who can tell what is relevant and what is not. Good and bad therefore, can only be defined by Him.

    It seems that your intention in posting here is what you said earlier : “I just want you to know where hijab originated.”

    Thank you, for trying to inform us Muslims. However, please understand and listen to what we are telling you — the hijab, despite your links and quotes, originated from Allah’s words in the Qur’an and from the authentic narrations of the Prophet. Those will guide us until Judgement Day. Any refutation of these two sources will be in vain.

    NettieH, you are telling us that our covering is in vain because history books and historians tell you that it’s not really a command from God. On the other hand, we Muslims tell you that IT IS a command from God and it is part of our worship and submission to Him because it is what He says in the Quran and the authentic narrations of the Prophet. As such, we Muslim women are happy to cover accordingly and we do not feel oppressed by it, on the contrary, we feel liberated. So why then do you insist on “liberating” us when we already are!

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    Nettie, I really am glad that we’re discussing this. You seem to be eager to know the truth, and have not once been insulting or rude, which I truly appreciate.

    Again, I will say that the actual evidences that Muslim women should cover, and that they did cover starting from the Prophet’s time and as a religious obligation are overwhelming. Unfortunately, the second quote you provided is one part misleading, and one part false. The misinformation in it is astounding:

    1) Yes, a “veil” existed in pre-Islamic times. The Qur’an, however, says, “And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance…” [33:33]. So even though women in pre-Islamic times had a veil/scarf, their “veiling” was considered a display!

    Islam approved the use of a veil (“khimar” in the Qur’an), but it amended it – this occurred with other practices as well. For example, “Hajj” existed in pre-Islamic times. Islam came to approve of the practice of Hajj (which the Arabs practiced before Islam, albeit in a corrupted form), but it also came to amend it. Another practice that existed before Islam was the giving of blood-money to the family of someone murdered. Again, Islam approved and amended this practice.

    Why does no one claim Hajj or giving of blood money is NOT a part of Islam, and simply a pre-Islamic cultural custom? Just because something existed (in some form) before Islam does not mean it cannot also be a part of Islam (in an amended form). So why make this claim regarding hijab?

    2) Yes, the hijab was not ordained at the start of Prophethood. It was commanded in roughly the year 5 Hijri (5 years after the emigration from Makkah to Madinah). This was around the 18th year of Prophethood.

    Fasting the month of Ramadan, by the way, was ordained in the year 2 Hijri, roughly the 15th year of Prophethood.

    The Friday congregational prayer was ordained in the 1st Hijri year, roughly the 14th year of Prophethood.

    Drinking wine/alcohol/intoxicants was forbidden in the 6th year Hijri, roughly the 19th year of Prophethood.

    Nettie, the process of legislation in Islam is well-known and well-documented. Not all the laws came down at once, and some of them (such as the prohibition for drinking wine) came gradually, in stages. All of the laws listed above came in roughly the same time period, later in Prophethood. However, once a command came down, it became binding!

    Does anyone claim that fasting Ramadan or praying the Friday congregational prayer is not really important because it came later in the Prophet’s life? Does anyone claim drinking alcohol is not actually prohibited because it came as the latest of all these commands? All these claims would be absurd, and would display a weak understanding of history and legislation in Islam. So why claim that about hijab?!

    3) As for the claim that “other than his wives, women in the general population still mingled freely with men,” this is also misleading.

    For one, the author switches from speaking about the veil and segregation to speaking only about “women in the general population still mingl[ing] freely.” This almost gives the impression that both the veil and the command for segregation were not applicable to Muslim women in general, and this is not true (actually, neither is true).

    I’m re-quoting the narration from above because of it’s relevance again to the discussion:

    Umm Salama [the wife of the Prophet] said: “When the verse {That they should cast their outer garments over their persons} [33:59] was revealed, the women of the Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads.” [Sahih Abi Dawud]

    This narration speaks about the women of the Ansar, who lived in the city of Madina. Umm Salama clearly states that when the verse about hijab came down, these women (the general populace) also veiled themselves. Not only that, but they did so as soon as they learned of the command for hijab.

    Other narrations indicate that “free mingling” was not allowed, and that women and men were to observe modesty and a certain set of rules when interacting with each other: women veil themselves, men and women both lower their gaze, women should not speak in an enticing way, and they had separate entrances/exists to the mosque. Did men and women interact? Absolutely. Women went to the market, they spoke with the Prophet or other men when there was a need, etc. But the word “free mingling” is inaccurate.

    It’s true that the wives of the Prophet were given a greater command to seclusion. One verse reads, “And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. [33:53]” So when men came to ask his wives something, it had to be done behind a wall, a screen, some sort of partition.

    So really, Nettie, there is absolutely no doubt that hijab is a religious commandment and not a cultural practice. The writer of the article you linked to is either willfully misguiding readers, or is misinformed. For every piece of ambiguous evidence or inaccurate historical reading that suggests otherwise, there are even more clear-cut narrations and binding pieces of evidence to prove them wrong.

    (As a side note, I would not consider sites like suite101 to be authoritative. If I’m not mistaken, content on these types of sites is generated by writers trying to make a living, and not necessarily by scholars in their respective fields.)

    Another interesting thing to note is: Really, why hijab? Why the Muslim woman’s hijab in particular? Why doesn’t anyone pick on Hindu women for observing purdah, for example? I actually don’t know enough about purdah to say whether it’s a religious or cultural practice, but why doesn’t anyone go try to liberate Hindu women from purdah, because it’s some historical fabrication? I mean, even if someone else is intent on believing, despite evidences which make it as clear as day, that hijab is cultural — if Muslim women are happy doing it, what’s there to liberate? It frustrates us as Muslim women so much sometimes, and maybe that’s why people get emotional when discussing this.

    This is all regarding evidence that hijab is clearly a religious obligation for women. Your other point about covering the head not making a person perfect is absolutely true, and I don’t think any Muslim will dispute this with you.

    Yes, a Muslim woman can wear hijab, but still be bad mannered. But also: A man can pray and still beat his wife. And a person can be eloquent and sweet-tongued, and still be a crook and a thief. Does that mean people should stop praying, or calling others to prayer? Does that mean people should stop being sweet-tongued or encouraging others to do the same?

    The focus of this website is hijab and encouraging others to wear hijab, so we don’t often wander off into other topics. But no Muslim claims that hijab is everything, or that it’s the only virtue that should be called to. Good manners are such a huge part of Islam. Manners include the way we dress modestly; they also include being good to neighbors, speaking kind words, loving other Muslims as much as we love ourselves, and even giving up things we love in preference for other people.

    None of that obviates the command and virtue of hijab. Hijab still remains a command from God, and who are we to pick and choose from His religion – to decide what is relevant and what is not – to set aside those commands which are no longer “convenient” or popular among the people of the world?

    Nettie, true submission is obedience. Yes, believe it or not, Muslims agree that salvation can only be obtained through God’s mercy. But if we want God’s mercy, then we should earn it by obeying His commands! And certainly, the more keen we are on obeying His commands and implementing His laws, the more reward and mercy we can expect.

    God sent down His books and messengers as guidance. Part of what’s problematic about Christianity is that there are all these commands in a book Christians turn to for guidance, but the commands are implemented for guidance! It’s not just covering the hair – there are many other aspects of the Bible no longer implemented. Somewhere along the way, men, mere humans, decided that yes, the Bible is a book from God, but as humans, whenever we find God’s words inconvenient, we’ll just stop following them. Where in the Bible does God authorize men to disobey His commands, because only the part about love and respect are important?

    Nettie, true love, true submission is obedience.

    God says in the Qur’an,

    So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part?

    He also says,

    Say, [O Muhammad], “If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

    On the surface, Netty, Christians always talk about feelings of love and respect – and I don’t doubt that they have love in their hearts. But the Muslim goes beyond speaking about love. The Muslims know that if they love God, they will try their best to do what He says, to embody their love into actions.

    No one is perfect. Women who wear hijab may need to work on their kind speech. Women who perfect their prayer may need to be kinder to their parents. Women who give in charity may need to refrain from immodest behaviors. But every command from God is important, every command should be called to and encouraged.

    Obedience to God is all the same – He commands, we obey, with love and submission and eagerness. “You said this, God? Then, I’ll do it. Even if I don’t understand everything about it, even if it seems insignificant to me – as long as You said it, I’ll do it, and I’ll do it with joy.”

    So for the Muslim woman, it is just that simple. We believe in hijab because we believe in Islam.

    I think the much more pressing and fundamental question, then, is: “Why do we believe in Islam?” – Wouldn’t you agree?

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    Nettie, I really am glad that we’re discussing this. You seem to be eager to know the truth, and have not once been insulting or rude, which I truly appreciate.

    Again, I will say that the actual evidences that Muslim women should cover, and that they did cover starting from the Prophet’s time and as a religious obligation are overwhelming. Unfortunately, the second quote you provided is one part misleading, and one part false. The misinformation in it is astounding:

    1) Yes, a “veil” existed in pre-Islamic times. The Qur’an, however, says, “And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance…” [33:33]. So even though women in pre-Islamic times had a veil/scarf, their “veiling” was considered a display!

    Islam approved the use of a veil (“khimar” in the Qur’an), but it amended it – this occurred with other practices as well. For example, “Hajj” existed in pre-Islamic times. Islam came to approve of the practice of Hajj (which the Arabs practiced before Islam, albeit in a corrupted form), but it also came to amend it. Another practice that existed before Islam was the giving of blood-money to the family of someone murdered. Again, Islam approved and amended this practice.

    Why does no one claim Hajj or giving of blood money is NOT a part of Islam, and simply a pre-Islamic cultural custom? Just because something existed (in some form) before Islam does not mean it cannot also be a part of Islam (in an amended form). So why make this claim regarding hijab?

    2) Yes, the hijab was not ordained at the start of Prophethood. It was commanded in roughly the year 5 Hijri (5 years after the emigration from Makkah to Madinah). This was around the 18th year of Prophethood.

    Fasting the month of Ramadan, by the way, was ordained in the year 2 Hijri, roughly the 15th year of Prophethood.

    The Friday congregational prayer was ordained in the 1st Hijri year, roughly the 14th year of Prophethood.

    Drinking wine/alcohol/intoxicants was forbidden in the 6th year Hijri, roughly the 19th year of Prophethood.

    Nettie, the process of legislation in Islam is well-known and well-documented. Not all the laws came down at once, and some of them (such as the prohibition for drinking wine) came gradually, in stages. All of the laws listed above came in roughly the same time period, later in Prophethood. However, once a command came down, it became binding!

    Does anyone claim that fasting Ramadan or praying the Friday congregational prayer is not really important because it came later in the Prophet’s life? Does anyone claim drinking alcohol is not actually prohibited because it came as the latest of all these commands? All these claims would be absurd, and would display a weak understanding of history and legislation in Islam. So why claim that about hijab?!

    3) As for the claim that “other than his wives, women in the general population still mingled freely with men,” this is also misleading.

    For one, the author switches from speaking about the veil and segregation to speaking only about “women in the general population still mingl[ing] freely.” This almost gives the impression that both the veil and the command for segregation were not applicable to Muslim women in general, and this is not true (actually, neither is true).

    I’m re-quoting the narration from above because of it’s relevance again to the discussion:

    Umm Salama [the wife of the Prophet] said: “When the verse {That they should cast their outer garments over their persons} [33:59] was revealed, the women of the Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads.” [Sahih Abi Dawud]

    This narration speaks about the women of the Ansar, who lived in the city of Madina. Umm Salama clearly states that when the verse about hijab came down, these women (the general populace) also veiled themselves. Not only that, but they did so as soon as they learned of the command for hijab.

    Other narrations indicate that “free mingling” was not allowed, and that women and men were to observe modesty and a certain set of rules when interacting with each other: women veil themselves, men and women both lower their gaze, women should not speak in an enticing way, and they had separate entrances/exists to the mosque. Did men and women interact? Absolutely. Women went to the market, they spoke with the Prophet or other men when there was a need, etc. But the word “free mingling” is inaccurate.

    It’s true that the wives of the Prophet were given a greater command to seclusion. One verse reads, “And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. [33:53]” So when men came to ask his wives something, it had to be done behind a wall, a screen, some sort of partition.

    So really, Nettie, there is absolutely no doubt that hijab is a religious commandment and not a cultural practice. The writer of the article you linked to is either willfully misguiding readers, or is misinformed. For every piece of ambiguous evidence or inaccurate historical reading that suggests otherwise, there are even more clear-cut narrations and binding pieces of evidence to prove them wrong.

    (As a side note, I would not consider sites like suite101 to be authoritative. If I’m not mistaken, content on these types of sites is generated by writers trying to make a living, and not necessarily by scholars in their respective fields.)

    Another interesting thing to note is: Really, why hijab? Why the Muslim woman’s hijab in particular? Why doesn’t anyone pick on Hindu women for observing purdah, for example? I actually don’t know enough about purdah to say whether it’s a religious or cultural practice, but why doesn’t anyone go try to liberate Hindu women from purdah, because it’s some historical fabrication? I mean, even if someone else is intent on believing, despite evidences which make it as clear as day, that hijab is cultural — if Muslim women are happy doing it, what’s there to liberate? It frustrates us as Muslim women so much sometimes, and maybe that’s why people get emotional when discussing this.

    This is all regarding evidence that hijab is clearly a religious obligation for women. Your other point about covering the head not making a person perfect is absolutely true, and I don’t think any Muslim will dispute this with you.

    Yes, a Muslim woman can wear hijab, but still be bad mannered. But also: A man can pray and still beat his wife. And a person can be eloquent and sweet-tongued, and still be a crook and a thief. Does that mean people should stop praying, or calling others to prayer? Does that mean people should stop being sweet-tongued or encouraging others to do the same?

    The focus of this website is hijab and encouraging others to wear hijab, so we don’t often wander off into other topics. But no Muslim claims that hijab is everything, or that it’s the only virtue that should be called to. Good manners are such a huge part of Islam. Manners include the way we dress modestly; they also include being good to neighbors, speaking kind words, loving other Muslims as much as we love ourselves, and even giving up things we love in preference for other people.

    None of that obviates the command and virtue of hijab. Hijab still remains a command from God, and who are we to pick and choose from His religion – to decide what is relevant and what is not – to set aside those commands which are no longer “convenient” or popular among the people of the world?

    Nettie, true submission is obedience. Yes, believe it or not, Muslims agree that salvation can only be obtained through God’s mercy. But if we want God’s mercy, then we should earn it by obeying His commands! And certainly, the more keen we are on obeying His commands and implementing His laws, the more reward and mercy we can expect.

    God sent down His books and messengers as guidance. Part of what’s problematic about Christianity is that there are all these commands in a book Christians turn to for guidance, but the commands are implemented for guidance! It’s not just covering the hair – there are many other aspects of the Bible no longer implemented. Somewhere along the way, men, mere humans, decided that yes, the Bible is a book from God, but as humans, whenever we find God’s words inconvenient, we’ll just stop following them. Where in the Bible does God authorize men to disobey His commands, because only the part about love and respect are important?

    Nettie, true love, true submission is obedience.

    God says in the Qur’an,

    So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part?

    He also says,

    Say, [O Muhammad], “If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

    On the surface, Netty, Christians always talk about feelings of love and respect – and I don’t doubt that they have love in their hearts. But the Muslim goes beyond speaking about love. The Muslims know that if they love God, they will try their best to do what He says, to embody their love into actions.

    No one is perfect. Women who wear hijab may need to work on their kind speech. Women who perfect their prayer may need to be kinder to their parents. Women who give in charity may need to refrain from immodest behaviors. But every command from God is important, every command should be called to and encouraged.

    Obedience to God is all the same – He commands, we obey, with love and submission and eagerness. “You said this, God? Then, I’ll do it. Even if I don’t understand everything about it, even if it seems insignificant to me – as long as You said it, I’ll do it, and I’ll do it with joy.”

    So for the Muslim woman, it is just that simple. We believe in hijab because we believe in Islam.

    I think the much more pressing and fundamental question, then, is: “Why do we believe in Islam?” – Wouldn’t you agree?

  • NettieH

    Bint AbdelHamid thank you for your well written responses to my questions. You are partially correct, I am eager to know why women still follow the custom of covering today. My reference to a veil in pre-Islamic times was just pointing out that Islam is not the first to cover- I think you stated “the Prophets wives were the first people addressed in the verse above” in our first conversation. I was simply stating that in history other woman covered- I think you’re point is woman of Islam covered for different reasons.

    Referring to Haaj or blood money, I can not comment with any opinion on this.

    A Muslim women should decide what constitutes modesty and what is appropriate for her, based on the environment in which she was raised, and the society in which she now lives. My point is this wearing the hijab is voluntary. God does not demand or reward a woman to cover! Some Muslim woman cover from head to toe, while her husband is next to her in shorts and a T shirt. This double standard is usually defended or excused with great ease. While other Muslim women can wear pants and hardly cover their hair (was this not a cultural standard – not a command of God to accept only covering the hair vs. full covering-?) My point: The covering standard for modesty is much less in the US vs. Islamic nations (Different command from Allah in severity of dress or cultural acceptance and change!)

    The Muslim world has managed to suppress half of its population – women. If I were a Muslim woman, It would be my privilege to take off my covering to support my Muslim sisters. Woman are still isolated & segregated in Islamic nations today and REQUIRED to cover from head to toe. Why does Islam believe women are less and inherently evil?

    -Islam teaches that women are unclean. “If a Muslim man touches’ a woman (even his wife) before praying, he is consider unclean for prayer”. Surah 4:43

    Mohammed teaches that women are lacking in mind and religion “have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than women” Al Bukhary vol. 2:541

    Islam teaches that men are superior to women ” And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (superiority) over them” Surah 2:228

    Islam teaches that a wife is subject to punishment by her husband, beating a wife or abstaining from sexual relations with her is allowed, “As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them…” Surah 4:34

    You asked “Why hijab and not question Hindu woman?” The answer to this question is as varied as the individual who asks. Personally, this issue has touched my life and I want to know all I can to expose the truth.

    You should not just be “loving other Muslims” God commanded us to Love our neighbors as ourselves- (Not only Muslims). If Muslims believe salvation stems from mercy- “we earn it by obeying” No human is perfect as you stated- How do you know when you’re “Good Enough” to please the creator of the heavens and the earth??

  • NettieH

    Bint AbdelHamid thank you for your well written responses to my questions. You are partially correct, I am eager to know why women still follow the custom of covering today. My reference to a veil in pre-Islamic times was just pointing out that Islam is not the first to cover- I think you stated “the Prophets wives were the first people addressed in the verse above” in our first conversation. I was simply stating that in history other woman covered- I think you’re point is woman of Islam covered for different reasons.

    Referring to Haaj or blood money, I can not comment with any opinion on this.

    A Muslim women should decide what constitutes modesty and what is appropriate for her, based on the environment in which she was raised, and the society in which she now lives. My point is this wearing the hijab is voluntary. God does not demand or reward a woman to cover! Some Muslim woman cover from head to toe, while her husband is next to her in shorts and a T shirt. This double standard is usually defended or excused with great ease. While other Muslim women can wear pants and hardly cover their hair (was this not a cultural standard – not a command of God to accept only covering the hair vs. full covering-?) My point: The covering standard for modesty is much less in the US vs. Islamic nations (Different command from Allah in severity of dress or cultural acceptance and change!)

    The Muslim world has managed to suppress half of its population – women. If I were a Muslim woman, It would be my privilege to take off my covering to support my Muslim sisters. Woman are still isolated & segregated in Islamic nations today and REQUIRED to cover from head to toe. Why does Islam believe women are less and inherently evil?

    -Islam teaches that women are unclean. “If a Muslim man touches’ a woman (even his wife) before praying, he is consider unclean for prayer”. Surah 4:43

    Mohammed teaches that women are lacking in mind and religion “have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than women” Al Bukhary vol. 2:541

    Islam teaches that men are superior to women ” And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (superiority) over them” Surah 2:228

    Islam teaches that a wife is subject to punishment by her husband, beating a wife or abstaining from sexual relations with her is allowed, “As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them…” Surah 4:34

    You asked “Why hijab and not question Hindu woman?” The answer to this question is as varied as the individual who asks. Personally, this issue has touched my life and I want to know all I can to expose the truth.

    You should not just be “loving other Muslims” God commanded us to Love our neighbors as ourselves- (Not only Muslims). If Muslims believe salvation stems from mercy- “we earn it by obeying” No human is perfect as you stated- How do you know when you’re “Good Enough” to please the creator of the heavens and the earth??

  • NettieH

    What you said about the Bible being “a Guide” is somewhat accurate. The word guidance is used 111 times in the Koran. I think the Koran gives guidance too. That does not imply that we can “Pick & Choose” cafeteria style what we implement from the Bible in how we live our lives!

    Christians consider the Bible the divine word of God breathed into its writers. The Old Testament – the Law of Moses describes Mosaic Law. Christians look at this for historical perspective, standards of morality, and ethics, foreshadowing of Christ (the lamb of God).

    The New Testament establishes a new covenant with mankind! Jesus and His apostles gave us a radically new understanding of the true intent of the Old Testament Law; they brought a new era of the rule of love for all people and spiritual truth instead of rule by law (Luke 10:25-28, John 13:34-35, Ephesians 2:14-18).

    Please don’t underestimate a Christian’s love for Christ and the meaning of God’s word! A Christians desire is to give love, without expecting anything in return, similar to that of a mothers love for her children

    My favorite scripture: The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.40:8 (This Scripture preserved in the oldest known copy of the Bible- the dead sea scrolls)

  • NettieH

    What you said about the Bible being “a Guide” is somewhat accurate. The word guidance is used 111 times in the Koran. I think the Koran gives guidance too. That does not imply that we can “Pick & Choose” cafeteria style what we implement from the Bible in how we live our lives!

    Christians consider the Bible the divine word of God breathed into its writers. The Old Testament – the Law of Moses describes Mosaic Law. Christians look at this for historical perspective, standards of morality, and ethics, foreshadowing of Christ (the lamb of God).

    The New Testament establishes a new covenant with mankind! Jesus and His apostles gave us a radically new understanding of the true intent of the Old Testament Law; they brought a new era of the rule of love for all people and spiritual truth instead of rule by law (Luke 10:25-28, John 13:34-35, Ephesians 2:14-18).

    Please don’t underestimate a Christian’s love for Christ and the meaning of God’s word! A Christians desire is to give love, without expecting anything in return, similar to that of a mothers love for her children

    My favorite scripture: The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.40:8 (This Scripture preserved in the oldest known copy of the Bible- the dead sea scrolls)

  • bintRey

    NettieH, according to the Bible, Genesis 2:4-3:24 who tempted Adam to eat from the forbidden tree? Didn’t Adam put all the blame on Eve so God said to Eve “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said,”Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree …. Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life…”

    On the other hand, amongst several places in the Quran like 7:19-25, God said

    “O Adam dwell with your wife in the garden and enjoy as you wish but approach not this tree or you run into harm. Then Satan whispered to them your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you become angels and he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. When they tasted the tree their shame became manifest to them..Their Lord called unto them did I not forbid you that tree…They said: our Lord we have wronged our own souls and if You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your mercy, we shall certainly be lost…”

    The Quran, contrary to the Bible, places equal blame on both Adam and Eve for their mistake. Nowhere in the Quran can one find even the slightest hint that Eve tempted Adam to eat from the tree or even that she had eaten before him. Eve in the Quran is no temptress, no seducer, and no deceiver. Moreover, Eve isn’t to be blamed for the pains of childbearing. God, according to the Quran, punish no one for another’s faults. Both Adam and Eve committed a sin and then asked God for forgiveness and He forgave them both.

    Here is what Judeo-Christian tradition says of women as it appears in their original sources not as practiced by their millions of followers in the world today because understanding a certain religion from the attitudes and the behaviour of some of its nominal followers is misleading. Many people confuse culture with religion, many others don’t know what their religious books are saying and many others don’t even care.

    Listen to St. Paul,” A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don’t permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam wasn’t the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner, but women will be saved through childbearing….“(I Timothy 2:11-15)

    St. Tertullian was even more blunt than St. Paul, while he was talking to his ‘best beloved sisters’ in the faith, he said,” Do you not know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil’s gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil wasn’t valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image ,man.”

    St. Augustine was faithful to the legacy of his predecessors, he wrote to a friend, ” What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman.” Centuries later, St. Thomas Aquinas still considered women as defective, “As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence.”

    Finally, the renowned reformer Martin Luther couldn’t see any benefit from a woman but bringing into the world as many children as possible regardless of the possible side effects,” If they become tired or even die, that doesn’t matter. Let them die in childbirth, that’s why they are there” Again and again all women are denigrated because of the image of Eve the temptress, thanks to the Genesis account.

    Excerpts from a Friday khutbah (sermon) by Muhammad Al Sheriff. For the full article go to http://www.jannah.org/sisters/compare.html

  • bintRey

    NettieH, according to the Bible, Genesis 2:4-3:24 who tempted Adam to eat from the forbidden tree? Didn’t Adam put all the blame on Eve so God said to Eve “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you.” To Adam he said,”Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree …. Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life…”

    On the other hand, amongst several places in the Quran like 7:19-25, God said

    “O Adam dwell with your wife in the garden and enjoy as you wish but approach not this tree or you run into harm. Then Satan whispered to them your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you become angels and he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. When they tasted the tree their shame became manifest to them..Their Lord called unto them did I not forbid you that tree…They said: our Lord we have wronged our own souls and if You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your mercy, we shall certainly be lost…”

    The Quran, contrary to the Bible, places equal blame on both Adam and Eve for their mistake. Nowhere in the Quran can one find even the slightest hint that Eve tempted Adam to eat from the tree or even that she had eaten before him. Eve in the Quran is no temptress, no seducer, and no deceiver. Moreover, Eve isn’t to be blamed for the pains of childbearing. God, according to the Quran, punish no one for another’s faults. Both Adam and Eve committed a sin and then asked God for forgiveness and He forgave them both.

    Here is what Judeo-Christian tradition says of women as it appears in their original sources not as practiced by their millions of followers in the world today because understanding a certain religion from the attitudes and the behaviour of some of its nominal followers is misleading. Many people confuse culture with religion, many others don’t know what their religious books are saying and many others don’t even care.

    Listen to St. Paul,” A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don’t permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam wasn’t the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner, but women will be saved through childbearing….“(I Timothy 2:11-15)

    St. Tertullian was even more blunt than St. Paul, while he was talking to his ‘best beloved sisters’ in the faith, he said,” Do you not know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil’s gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil wasn’t valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image ,man.”

    St. Augustine was faithful to the legacy of his predecessors, he wrote to a friend, ” What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman.” Centuries later, St. Thomas Aquinas still considered women as defective, “As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence.”

    Finally, the renowned reformer Martin Luther couldn’t see any benefit from a woman but bringing into the world as many children as possible regardless of the possible side effects,” If they become tired or even die, that doesn’t matter. Let them die in childbirth, that’s why they are there” Again and again all women are denigrated because of the image of Eve the temptress, thanks to the Genesis account.

    Excerpts from a Friday khutbah (sermon) by Muhammad Al Sheriff. For the full article go to http://www.jannah.org/sisters/compare.html

  • adikseow

    ladies….with all due respect..theres too much communication here and we might just be confuse..dear nettie …you with ur religion and we with ours..amin nauzubillah ..

  • adikseow

    ladies….with all due respect..theres too much communication here and we might just be confuse..dear nettie …you with ur religion and we with ours..amin nauzubillah ..

  • bintRey

    indeed there has been a lot of communication because the seemingly innocent questioning of sources of the command for hijaab, goes into doctrinal issues i.e, Protestantism’s man is saved by faith alone vs Islam’s man is saved by faith, good deeds and Allah’s mercy

    as mentioned earlier, the real concept of hijaab and other concepts taught by Islam will never be understood without first accepting tawheed, the Prophet Muhammad and that the Quran is a revelation from God

    a full glass won’t be capable of taking in anymore, unless Allah wills it to do so

  • bintRey

    indeed there has been a lot of communication because the seemingly innocent questioning of sources of the command for hijaab, goes into doctrinal issues i.e, Protestantism’s man is saved by faith alone vs Islam’s man is saved by faith, good deeds and Allah’s mercy

    as mentioned earlier, the real concept of hijaab and other concepts taught by Islam will never be understood without first accepting tawheed, the Prophet Muhammad and that the Quran is a revelation from God

    a full glass won’t be capable of taking in anymore, unless Allah wills it to do so

  • nettieh

    bintRey- Hello! The original version of Genesis 2:4 (from the Bible) which you first quoted is the accepted version because it was written closest to the time of Christ. The story taken from the Bible in the Koran’s version has been changed (I think you said 7:19-25) The oldest version of this story was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls- The oldest known version of the Bible!! The Koran’s version came hundreds of years later (with the story of Adam & Eve changed??)

    I want to keep this brief (thanks adikseow) – I brought up the views of women in the Koran not to sidebar us to another topic- but to illustrate the point that Islam has a history of treating women as 2nd class citizens and I believe complete covering is part of that- which has now evolved to just hair & neck covering. Both no longer necessary in the submission to God…

    PS
    (The Catholic church does have history of abuse of power!! St. Tertullian and St Augustine not followed today)
    I don’t think Martin Luther made that statement but will look for it!

  • nettieh

    bintRey- Hello! The original version of Genesis 2:4 (from the Bible) which you first quoted is the accepted version because it was written closest to the time of Christ. The story taken from the Bible in the Koran’s version has been changed (I think you said 7:19-25) The oldest version of this story was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls- The oldest known version of the Bible!! The Koran’s version came hundreds of years later (with the story of Adam & Eve changed??)

    I want to keep this brief (thanks adikseow) – I brought up the views of women in the Koran not to sidebar us to another topic- but to illustrate the point that Islam has a history of treating women as 2nd class citizens and I believe complete covering is part of that- which has now evolved to just hair & neck covering. Both no longer necessary in the submission to God…

    PS
    (The Catholic church does have history of abuse of power!! St. Tertullian and St Augustine not followed today)
    I don’t think Martin Luther made that statement but will look for it!

  • …

    NettieH,

    You said some Muslim women do not wear hijab. That doesn’t mean that we are allowed to not wear hijab. It is mandatory in our religion to cover ourselves but some Muslims unfortunately have not been educated in that area and think of it as an option. I do not understand what you are trying to prove. And you said the Quran TOOK the story from the bible. God made both of them Christians just changed the bible a bit. Also just because the story of Adam and Eve is in the Quran but doesn’t portray women in a bad way doesn’t prove that in Christianity women are treated fairly. You know around 100 years ago women were treated like property by christians, catholics, and jews alike. Now picture this: Fourteen hundred years ago Islam allowed women to vote for a leader. It was recently, in 1925, Canadian women became allowed to vote. Worst, in Quebec, the law became final in 1940. Muslim women got rights before Western women got any.

    The two great roles a woman plays in life are a wife and a mother. The Prophet once said to a group of men: “The best among you are those who are the best to their wives.” This shows that Islam highly encourages the well treating of the wives. This should be shown love, respect and care.

    A man came to the Prophet, sallallahualayhe wa sallam, and asked: “Who among my kinfolk is worthy of my good companionship?” The Prophet, sallallahu alavhe wa sallam, replied: “Your mother” three times before saying: “Your father.” This indicates the impact that a mother has in a person’s life. So women are highly honored in this great religion. Islam is a only religion that treats women fairly. Oppression is condemned.

  • …

    NettieH,

    You said some Muslim women do not wear hijab. That doesn’t mean that we are allowed to not wear hijab. It is mandatory in our religion to cover ourselves but some Muslims unfortunately have not been educated in that area and think of it as an option. I do not understand what you are trying to prove. And you said the Quran TOOK the story from the bible. God made both of them Christians just changed the bible a bit. Also just because the story of Adam and Eve is in the Quran but doesn’t portray women in a bad way doesn’t prove that in Christianity women are treated fairly. You know around 100 years ago women were treated like property by christians, catholics, and jews alike. Now picture this: Fourteen hundred years ago Islam allowed women to vote for a leader. It was recently, in 1925, Canadian women became allowed to vote. Worst, in Quebec, the law became final in 1940. Muslim women got rights before Western women got any.

    The two great roles a woman plays in life are a wife and a mother. The Prophet once said to a group of men: “The best among you are those who are the best to their wives.” This shows that Islam highly encourages the well treating of the wives. This should be shown love, respect and care.

    A man came to the Prophet, sallallahualayhe wa sallam, and asked: “Who among my kinfolk is worthy of my good companionship?” The Prophet, sallallahu alavhe wa sallam, replied: “Your mother” three times before saying: “Your father.” This indicates the impact that a mother has in a person’s life. So women are highly honored in this great religion. Islam is a only religion that treats women fairly. Oppression is condemned.

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    Nettie, would you be interested in continuing the discussion with me by email? I understand that the discussion may be getting long for others to read, but I personally felt like we were going somewhere with this. Let me know. (And if yes, I assume the email you use to comment with is a valid, functioning email address?)

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    Nettie, would you be interested in continuing the discussion with me by email? I understand that the discussion may be getting long for others to read, but I personally felt like we were going somewhere with this. Let me know. (And if yes, I assume the email you use to comment with is a valid, functioning email address?)

  • http://www.momo17.wordpress.com/ Maryam

    subhanAllah, this is getting intense

    jazakAllah if you loved the poem Mahvish and Adikseow, i loved it too <3

  • http://www.momo17.wordpress.com Maryam

    subhanAllah, this is getting intense

    jazakAllah if you loved the poem Mahvish and Adikseow, i loved it too <3

  • bintRey

    Assalamu ‘alaykum, Maryam

    When a non-Muslim

    –> tells a Muslim what Islam teaches by laying misinformed claims about Islam, and I mean claims — not questions
    –> uses verses in the Qur’an or authentic ahadith WITHOUT taking into account the other verses and other prophetic traditions in relation to the same issue
    –> inisists on telling a Muslim that what he is doing is actually not needed

    despite the Muslim giving him proofs from the Qur’an, the discussion is bound to be intense.

  • bintRey

    Assalamu ‘alaykum, Maryam

    When a non-Muslim

    –> tells a Muslim what Islam teaches by laying misinformed claims about Islam, and I mean claims — not questions
    –> uses verses in the Qur’an or authentic ahadith WITHOUT taking into account the other verses and other prophetic traditions in relation to the same issue
    –> inisists on telling a Muslim that what he is doing is actually not needed

    despite the Muslim giving him proofs from the Qur’an, the discussion is bound to be intense.

  • http://www.momo17.wordpress.com/ Maryam

    walykum asalaam bintRey :)

    hope ur doing great inshaAllah.

    i understand that and im happy that we have people like you to counter that. mashaAllah :)
    But i would like to reiterate what Adikseow said to NettieH, “to me my religion, to you yours”

    takecare dear sis,
    much love,
    maryam

  • http://www.momo17.wordpress.com Maryam

    walykum asalaam bintRey :)

    hope ur doing great inshaAllah.

    i understand that and im happy that we have people like you to counter that. mashaAllah :)
    But i would like to reiterate what Adikseow said to NettieH, “to me my religion, to you yours”

    takecare dear sis,
    much love,
    maryam

  • bintRey

    A US Marine Captain was posted in Darwin, Australia and he had this to say after a night out at the Top End.

    The captain said the women of Darwin wore little clothing in a bid to get men’s attention.

    “It’s about having standards, ladies,” he wrote in the letter published yesterday.

    “What are standards? Well, it can begin by dressing in a manner that leaves something to the imagination, to say the least.”

    “Ladies have been conned into thinking that just because you have it means you should flaunt it.”

    “Come on ladies, don’t send us mixed messages. That’s what you do every time you dress with less than nothing on.”

    Note: There is no mention that the captain is a Muslim.
    Source: 7 News Australia, 6 Jan. 2010

  • bintRey

    A US Marine Captain was posted in Darwin, Australia and he had this to say after a night out at the Top End.

    The captain said the women of Darwin wore little clothing in a bid to get men’s attention.

    “It’s about having standards, ladies,” he wrote in the letter published yesterday.

    “What are standards? Well, it can begin by dressing in a manner that leaves something to the imagination, to say the least.”

    “Ladies have been conned into thinking that just because you have it means you should flaunt it.”

    “Come on ladies, don’t send us mixed messages. That’s what you do every time you dress with less than nothing on.”

    Note: There is no mention that the captain is a Muslim.
    Source: 7 News Australia, 6 Jan. 2010

  • bintRey

    Assalamu ‘alaykum wa rahmatullah, Maryam

    Yes. Subhanallah, I agree that there comes a point when the Muslim says “To you your religion, to me mine” –though not until he gets an indication that the other person is not listening anymore and the whole discussion seems to be pointless. Plus, after all, Allah ‘azza wa jal says in the Quran that the non-believers will never be happy with us until we become like them wa na’oodhoobillah.

    Baarak Allahu feeki.

    uhibuki fillah,
    your name sake :-) [in fact also with with a "y"]

  • bintRey

    Assalamu ‘alaykum wa rahmatullah, Maryam

    Yes. Subhanallah, I agree that there comes a point when the Muslim says “To you your religion, to me mine” –though not until he gets an indication that the other person is not listening anymore and the whole discussion seems to be pointless. Plus, after all, Allah ‘azza wa jal says in the Quran that the non-believers will never be happy with us until we become like them wa na’oodhoobillah.

    Baarak Allahu feeki.

    uhibuki fillah,
    your name sake :-) [in fact also with with a "y"]

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    Assalamu alaikum sisters,

    bintRey is right — saying “To you your religion, to me mine” has its place, but so does arguing and discussing Islam with people. As the ayah translates,

    Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. [16:125]

    So because of this ayah as well, it’s important to always be polite and gentle when arguing with people. I know as Muslims we get passionate about defending our religion, but we should still try to speak calmly with the people so it doesn’t drive them away.

    An amazing piece of advice I learned from Sheikh Mohamed Hassan is his saying, “You will not be more jealous than Allah over His deen.”

    Allah knows better than us what the people will say about Islam — He knows the things people will argue about and dispute. And with His infinite Knowledge and Wisdom, He still commanded us to “argue with them in a way that is best.” So if we really want to defend the deen of Allah, we should do it in the way Allah commanded us to do it. No amount of love or passion or jealousy over Islam allows us to override Allah’s command for good manners.

    For more on the topic of discussing Islam with others, please visit A Foundation for Establishing Dialogue with the People of the Book.

    Wa Allahu a’lam.

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    Assalamu alaikum sisters,

    bintRey is right — saying “To you your religion, to me mine” has its place, but so does arguing and discussing Islam with people. As the ayah translates,

    Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. [16:125]

    So because of this ayah as well, it’s important to always be polite and gentle when arguing with people. I know as Muslims we get passionate about defending our religion, but we should still try to speak calmly with the people so it doesn’t drive them away.

    An amazing piece of advice I learned from Sheikh Mohamed Hassan is his saying, “You will not be more jealous than Allah over His deen.”

    Allah knows better than us what the people will say about Islam — He knows the things people will argue about and dispute. And with His infinite Knowledge and Wisdom, He still commanded us to “argue with them in a way that is best.” So if we really want to defend the deen of Allah, we should do it in the way Allah commanded us to do it. No amount of love or passion or jealousy over Islam allows us to override Allah’s command for good manners.

    For more on the topic of discussing Islam with others, please visit A Foundation for Establishing Dialogue with the People of the Book.

    Wa Allahu a’lam.

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    Nettie, if you ever come back to read the comments in this post, my offer still stands. If you wanted to continue our conversation, feel free to email me at:

    bint.abdelhamid AT gmail DOT com (<< reformat as a proper address, I'm simply trying to avoid spam!)

  • http://www.igotitcovered.org/author/bintabdelhamid/ Bint AbdelHamid

    Nettie, if you ever come back to read the comments in this post, my offer still stands. If you wanted to continue our conversation, feel free to email me at:

    bint.abdelhamid AT gmail DOT com (<< reformat as a proper address, I’m simply trying to avoid spam!)

  • http://www.momo17.wordpress.com/ Maryam

    SubhanAllah

    Bint AbdelHamid. mashaAllah that was too good.

    bintRey, jazakAllah :) i agree :)

  • http://www.momo17.wordpress.com maryam

    SubhanAllah

    Bint AbdelHamid. mashaAllah that was too good.

    bintRey, jazakAllah :) i agree :)

  • bintRey

    wa iyyaki, Maryam

  • bintRey

    wa iyyaki, Maryam

  • haNeFah

    ASSALAMOALYKOM WARAHMATOLLAHI WABARAKATO!
    Really nice….very informative…
    It guides me along the way of my hijab…….
    Thank you!
    Continue touching ones heart and lead them to the right path..

    ” Avoiding those written above would be quit hard…huhu!Because I’m taking up Bachelor of Secondary Education major in Biology..so I’d be teaching to a high school students which involves interaction between me and my MALE AND FEMALE students soon.Here in Philippines, boys and girls are mix in one classroom:Likewise with our faculty office too.So how would our interaction between my co teachers goes? What will I do? Is it to quit with my present course and take other one or just to continue?..huhuhu!So hard to decide…
    But I would do my best to fulfill it all…hehe!So please guys pray for my salvation…hehe!Thank you…”
    :o)

  • haNeFah

    ASSALAMOALYKOM WARAHMATOLLAHI WABARAKATO!
    Really nice….very informative…
    It guides me along the way of my hijab…….
    Thank you!
    Continue touching ones heart and lead them to the right path..

    ” Avoiding those written above would be quit hard…huhu!Because I’m taking up Bachelor of Secondary Education major in Biology..so I’d be teaching to a high school students which involves interaction between me and my MALE AND FEMALE students soon.Here in Philippines, boys and girls are mix in one classroom:Likewise with our faculty office too.So how would our interaction between my co teachers goes? What will I do? Is it to quit with my present course and take other one or just to continue?..huhuhu!So hard to decide…
    But I would do my best to fulfill it all…hehe!So please guys pray for my salvation…hehe!Thank you…”
    :o)

  • Pingback: Hijabi-Check « Majlis Syura Muslimun (MSM) North West

  • sarah1027

    umm ladddyyy…..you gotta think twice about your answer. 'male dominated society' – you some sort of feminist of what??
    understand the true aspect of hijab. the benefits…..and if you really do your research in sociological studies you'll find that women are seen/used as objects by men and are used in the media?-
    hijab=respect- a mans talking you to, not your breast
    one thing you are right about is that Allah did give us beauty (dont abuse it) …but he also made this life a test- just because you have beauty does not really mean that you have to go around walking naked so that others see your business- (cuz im sure, its not always such a pretty view now is it?)
    and as for the weeping- save it for a rainy day (by the looks of it, you might need it yourself considering the lack of respect you seen to have for your body-(exploiting it)
    we Muslim sisters are proud to go out into the world demanding only respect for ourselves and those around us. we have no shame in practicing the religion of our lord the most merciful and in trying to fulfill the sole purpose of our existence on this earth.

    I pray that Allah guides you to the truth and allows you to see the wrong in your misconceptions of Islam.

    sorry for being a little harsh
    salam (peace)

  • Pingback: This Hijab

  • Pingback: This Hijab « A World of Dreams

  • Woah

    AH-MAZING!

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